Recently I was invited to be a guest on a public radio program about the Santa lie (should we or shouldn’t we) and the first two minutes was devoted to explaining to parents what was about to happen and that they should turn off the radio or move the children out of the room if they want to protect them from hearing the truth. WTF? Are we insane? Protect them from the truth?

In concept, is that any different than government official shielding us from lies and corruption perpetuated in our name because that would cause us to lose our innocence and lose faith in our institutions?

I’ll answer my own rhetorical question in the affirmative. It is the same thing. The only difference is scale and consequences.

How in the world can be possibly tackle the huge problems we have, problems that require a sober look at our present environmental and economic situation, if we can’t even admit in public that Santa is not real.

That’s what drives me nuts. It’s just not Santa lie itself (which is relatively minor on the offense scale), it’s the belief system that drives, supports and justifies the Santa lie.

See, now I sound even crazier.

I remember getting excited about the Metallica/Guns-n-Rosed show in Oakland. Everyone at work knew I was going. Also, everyone at work knew it had been cancelled. Except no one told me. This was way before smart phones, the internet and all the other communication devices we now have. So if no one told you you, or you weren’t listening to the radio at the right time, wouldn’t know. I drive two and half hours to Oakland to find out the show had been cancelled. The next day everyone said they just thought I new or would figure it out.

I tell you, there was nothing magical or wondrous about being kept in the dark. And my innocence was definitely not protected.

Not correcting false information provides no benefit to the believer no matter how you slice it.

It’s like when Clinton said he never had sexual relations with that woman. And then when he was caught, he claimed that he thought by “sex” we meant intercourse only. No one bought that line and I can’t by yours for the same reason.

All I really want is one parent to just admit that, yes, I’m lying to my children, I understand lying is wrong, and I’m going to do it anyways because it pleases me.

That I get. All other justifications, I don’t. And I know that the parents themselves don’t buy it either because if I were to apply the same justifications for other lies that were socially out of favor instead of sanctioned, people would rightly get upset and think I was a bit bonkers.

There’s also this odd idea that somehow Santa is universal and eternal. While there have been many “santa like” characters throughout European history, the modern version of Santa Claus was created by a a few authors in the early 1800′s and then solidified by political cartoonist Thomas Nast’s illustration of Santa in the late 1800′s (the same guy who invented the donkey an elephant for Democrats and Republicans). Then Coca Cola took a step further in a very popular and famous advertisement in the 1930′s. The free market then made it permanent because Santa is hugely profitable.

So this whole Santa thing, that we invest so heavily in, is very recent and largely the result of the wild imaginations of a few artists and authors and a major corporation selling sugar water.

So why do we think that children will hate presents and treats, that no one will appreciate spending time with family, and that children will grow up being unimaginative dolts without a sense of wonder if we don’t convince them that this fabrication is completely true?

A child’s natural state is magical, fantastical, imaginative, spontaneous and free of the constraints of time, expectations, and consequences. That’s why it’s so hard to get them to focus on mundane tasks (brushing teeth, getting ready to out, picking up their toys). They are completely in the moment and utterly self centered.

So they don’t need an adult force feeding them a lie to have a sense of wonder and they don’t need to be lied to to maintain their innocence (which is the biggest load of crap I’ve ever heard and completely contradictory… it’s up there with “work will set you free”)

The real reason parents lie to children, for any reason, is for their own benefit. They are the ones who get the rewards from lying, not the children. Children have no problems with truth as they take it at face value. They have no ingrained prejudices to defend, no ego to defend, and no position in society to defend. So they just accept the world as-is. It’s adults that are the ones who have a problem with accepting things the way they are.

I’m not one to say to others God is or isn’t real. I myself believe. I can understand non believers viewpoints and respect them. But I’m on the opposite as far as belief is. I choose to believe (for the most part of things). I take what I will and leave the rest at the door. I would rather believe and find out there isn’t than to not believe and find out their is.

I have tons of faith… not just in god. BUt day to day thing. Faith/beliefs in people… daily interaction… just a variety of things… That my friends will be there for me, mail will come on time, get a good parking spot, my kids will behave ect… Important and less important things.

faith/belief is just that faith/belief. Do we ever actually know the truth??? Not till the end. There are so many things that have been “proven” TRUE by science only to find out 20-50 years later that it was false. Things happen. I know how life is. I know how tough and viscous this world is. I like the whole idea of Christmas… it brings people together and makes people a bit nicer for a minute. I think for the most part it bring the good out in people even if only temporarily. In short to sum up my opinion… I bring/give happiness, joy and help others.

I’m sorry people are giving you a hard time. I wouldn’t judge a parents, parenting, because of their beliefs. If a child isn’t abused or neglected and they are happy I don’t usually see a problem. I understand people and get very riled up when people doubt the existence of their faith. Life would be much less stressed if people could just agree to disagree and let it go.
I think for what it is (that you wrote)… from your perspective is good. I see your view point. I don’t believe the same though.

Warm wishes to all, and to those you love.

Funny and painfully true.

However, debunking Santa is not high on my list. But I think it’s unusually relevant in illustrating how the world works. I also see lies as habit forming. You start with the simple ones and it gets easier to embrace the bigger ones. It’s a continuum. Santa is very high on the falsification spectrum, but rather low on the harm spectrum.

I also think it’s accurate to say that lies have a cummulative effect. Taken together a lot of little lies leads to cynicism and cynicism is a dead end.

I thought I wrote a funny and simple essay explaining an irrefutable truth. I figured like minded people would find comfort that they are not crazy for opting out of the Santa lie, and Santa parents would go “yeah that kind of makes sense when you put it that way…but I’m going to keep lying anyway.”

I was not prepared for the reaction. I was also not prepared to have my parenting choices called into question by strangers and acquaintances when they found out we didn’t trick our daughter into believing Santa was real.

Seriously? I’m the bad parent for NOT lying? In what universe is that true?

It’s like I live in Bizarro world (that’s an alternate world in Superman comics where everything is the opposite).

Now that’s a proper use of myth. I just used Bizarro world (everyone know it’s not true but it’s a fun story) to create an analogy to describe a reality. Which is what I think the original purpose of myths were in a pre-scientific method and oral tradition world. A fanciful and memorable story, song, or poem that illustrated a concept, would be about the only way pass that bit of info on. Otherwise people would go around saying “uh, when were we supposed to plant our crops again?…damn I wish we has some magical way to record that date and then be able to retrieve it when ever we want!”

But I take it you do something about it, so I applaud you. Now, is your reaction based on the harm those kinds of comments cause, or because they happen to be factually untrue? C’mon, you’re not worried about the ‘accuracy’ of bigoted statements, but their intention and their consequences. At least I hope those are your concerns.

If your purpose is to rid society of all mythology, because you think it cannot coexist with reason and science, then you’ve got your work cut out for you. If the harm these myths cause and the intentions of the deceivers are “irrelevant,” then I really question the purpose of your endeavor.

Still, I can’t see why taking on Santa Claus is high on your (Christmas) list, or what good you hope to achieve with bringing him down. But good luck anyway.

And the degree of harm it may or may not cause, or the intentions of the deceiver, is irrelevant. Calling it tradition doesn’t exonerate the deceiver either. The list of “traditions” we’ve done away with, or on their way their way out, because they were either harmful (slavery, circumcision, scaring, shunning of women during their menstrual cycle, human sacrifice, only allowing white landowning men to vote, etc) or ridiculous is growing year by year, and this is a very good thing. Santa just has more staying power than most. It’s fanatical the way people rally around to perpetuate it. It’s somewhat of a national psychosis. You just don’t see this level of devotion to a lie anywhere else in society. And by a lie, I mean there’s not a single adult alive who actually believes it, which is different from religion where the messenger actually is sincere. So why don’t we trick children into believing that leprechauns, minotaurs, or cupids are real? Those are traditional stories as well.

So the “tradition” argument doesn’t hold up at all. The Santa myth goes far deeper than that or else it would be just another fun story like finding gold at the end of a rainbow.

Fundamentalists can’t follow this logic because they are very good at dissipating the effects of cognitive disonance. This allows them to retain gross contractions in their mind with little emotional and intellectual discomfort. This is why you’ve built this disjointed theory to explain away the inherent contradictions in your belief system.

I’m only leaving this long winded justification of your personal creation mythology because I’d feel bad about deleting your hard work. Anyone on else who uses this blog to defend their religion will be deleted from now on. Go to a Christian forum to discuss these things. I’m not interested.

http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/15/9448946-liar-liar-pants-on-fire-your-baby-will-be-the-judge

In regard to the matter of whether God exists or not, (as well as in regards to the issue of Santa Clause), I’d like to share a few thoughts. Although I am a Christian, I respect other people’s beliefs and I feel that there are many reasons why people believe in different ways than I do, including because of the actions of people who call themselves Christians, etc. I also believe that the Bible says very clearly there are many good people who don’t even know or believe in God (Romans 2:13-16).

I believe that a major reason why many people are reluctant to believe in God’s existence to begin with is because of the false doctrines promoted by Christian churches, such as eternally burning hell-fire, which make God seem like a merciless monster who no one should want to believe in. If you study everything that the Bible says about this matter you cannot conclude that the Bible says God is a monster who will burn people forever for the sins of one lifetime. All throughout the old testament, and many books of the new testament make this matter clear- showing that judgment will take place the future on planet earth (not in the middle of the earth, or Satan with a pitch fork or any of those fanciful ideas) when all evil will be burned completely up so that God can create the world anew. The problem is how people study the Bible- taking one or two verses and building a whole doctrine on that (in this case out of Revelation which makes a couple of statements which seem difficult to understand, but it should be remember that Ref. is a book that is highly figurative, instead of literal), as well as the fact that some pagan doctrines of eternal hellfire from the middle ages were mixed into Christianity.

From what I understand, these ideas of eternal hell-fire were rampant before Darwinism sprang up- so people were ready to accept any relief from such a horrible doctrine- I can’t blame anyone for wanting to escape the idea of such a horrible God as was created by these false ideas.

As far as the validity of the Bible, or scientific evidence for the existence of God, I believe there it is really quite abundant. But, at the same time, I believe that Jesus is gentle and patient, unlike many Christians who want to “prove” his existence, and force people to believe in him. Remember, this is the same Jesus who refused to let them crown him king and often stayed at the back of the crowd, while all his followers kept pushing him to “show” himself, (i.e. “prove” himself?)- they kept asking him “why won’t you show yourself to the world?” because they wanted so badly for him to take the world by force and demand that everyone believe in him and accept him- but that was not his way. Unfortunately, many of Christ’s followers today are just like his followers were in those days- wishing to force him to become king, wishing to force people to believe in him, wishing to “prove” that he exists and make people believe in Him. But I don’t believe that Christ is that way- he only wants to draw people through love and patience, and respect the free will choice of everyone.

But, for the sake of honest sharing and consideration, I’ll list a few things which I believe show evidence that the world was created and is fairly young- those are things such as; the sedimentary layers at the bottoms of the oceans is very thin (doesn’t match the millions of years idea), the erosion of all the world’s major water falls from where they started out to where they are now can be measured, and if you divide that distance by the rate at which they are currently eroding backwards you only come up with a few thousand years rather than millions of years. The rate of erosion of topsoil from continents – and even the fact that there is still any top soil remaining, doesn’t match the millions of years model. Also, the formation of ATP, the most basic element of life- is irreducibly complex. I might not have this exactly right, but as far as I remember it’s something like 10 enzymes as complex as a ball of spaghetti (which would be denatured if the slightest part weren’t intact) that must be present all at the same time in order to produce ATP, but it requires ATP in order to produce those enzymes. That irreducible complexity is the signature of God.

The accuracy of prophecy is a reason why I believe the Bible is a valid source. The 490 year (70 weeks) prophecy of Daniel 9 pointed out the exact year that the Messiah would come, and when he would die. The prophecy of the image in Daniel 2, and the beasts of Daniel 7 prophesied the rise and fall of European kingdoms with uncanny accuracy- the rise and fall of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and the 10 tribes happened exactly as was predicted. At this present time, the Bible foretells how the world will end and what we need to do to prepare (esp in both Daniel and Revelation, etc.). Considering the unerring accuracy of it’s predictions in the past, it wouldn’t be a bad idea for people to take notice of what it’s saying, if you really think about it.

A few more things in regard to Santa Claus, I think it’s really sad that people lie to their kids about this, especially because children may have a natural awareness of the existence of God, and if that is replaced by something they will someday learn is only make-believe, they may be likely to believe that all religion and belief in God is merely a fairy tale- so they could be cheating their kids out of having a chance to know the real God.

Another reason I don’t feel right about Santa Claus is because it seems very obviously to be like Catholic propaganda. If you think about it, Santa looks quite a bit like the Pope- with the white hair, being called a “saint” like the “Holy Father,” – and if you notice, the Pope also dresses in some outfits which look just like Santa Claus. The fact that Santa is so universally accepted everywhere seems a little creepy when you realize that the Catholic church has plans to create a one world religion (especially in light of the history of their persecution of anyone who would not accept the church), perhaps in combination with a one-world government. This is not only the agenda of earthly governments (illuminati, new world order), but it has been predicted in Revelation 13, etc.

I wish a Merry Christmas to all!

And no you didn’t strike a nerve. I’m just tired of hearing the same circular logic to defend a faith based position. Seriously, how much patience would you have with living in a society where everyone was a Muslim or Hindi or thought they could predict the future by reading your palm. After a while you’d be done with hearing it. But since your mythology happens to be the dominant mythology in the United States you never have to deal with this frustration and are also surrounded with rewards for subscribing to this mythology. Societies momentum is in your favor. It’s a nice position to be in.

The truth is nearly everyone on in the world is an atheist about most religions and supernatural beliefs. I just added one more to the list. Which is logical. Why would you reject 1000 religions but accept one as truth. The same rigorous application of reason that would lead you reject the first 1000 should lead you to reject the last one as well as they all based on the same premiss.

So I have nothing to learn from having these discussions any more than you would if were I tell you over and over the reason your car ran out of gas was because evil spirits drank it all.

I’m sure you can’t understand why someone who’s capable of thinking deeply about things can’t see the truth in your God much in the same why I can’t understand why someone as smart as you does. It’s an unresolvable position as we are using two completely different sets of rules to achieve our conclusion. This is why I can have very good friends, whom are very honorable and I trust completely, who are devout Christians. We have an unspoken agreement not to get into it as it will lead to nothing but aggravation.

And this is the end of this thread…for real this time. My parenting blog is not a forum.

And it’s just not in religion, it happens everywhere. Cops do it, prosecutors do it, congress people do it, investors do it, and even scientists do it (though less often than other professions because of the rigorous peer review and the guiding principals of scientific method).”

Apt description of how the mind works. And you don’t do this?

I can see my response struck a nerve; I thought you would welcome a carefully thought out, respectful reply to your earlier comment.